Are Tier Lists Good for PAD?
Tier lists have been around longer than I have, and have an important purpose in helping people identify what stands out apart from the rest. In games, this is no different; there will always be something that’s super good, and something that’s super crap. The thing with Puzzle and Dragons, however, is that people can work with that crap and still progress through the game just fine; do you really think people couldn’t clear A3 or AA before Yusuke came along?
There are many reasons why a Tier list would be a good idea for some games, such as Super Smash Brothers or Final Fantasy Brave Exvius. So let’s take a look as to why a tier list can assist or destroy your experience with Puzzle and Dragons~
PROS
Help new players identify decent cards
New players won’t know what makes a card good. When my brother started PAD, every time he got something, he sent me a picture asking if it was good or not. 99% of the time it was some random dungeon drop. It would also be a nice tool for players to identify what makes a good leader as opposed to a sub.
Helps returning players identify how the game has changed
Players who haven’t been around in some time who were used to old pairings could use something to help identify how the game has changed over the time they were gone and what the new “meta” is, so they know what new or popular leaders to have up as friend units.
CONS
Everyone would blindly follow the “best card”
If we were to make a tier list, put it on this site, and say “X card is SS Tier” everyone and their mother would suddenly try to obtain that card, and use it constantly without working with other leaders or the rest of their box; eventually causing the game to become boring since that one card is the “end all be all” of leaders making it so they only play with that leaders play style.
Players won’t try new strategies
It could also discourage players who weren’t fortunate enough to obtain that card from continuing on. I’ve seen players stick to one specific leader, thinking that they were the best card they had, and not try other team compositions as they banged their head into a dungeon. This also goes into limiting creativity, as the player in question would more than likely not take another look at their box and try to change things up. If you want to see this in action, go to a large server like the PAD Community server, go to the help section and wait til someone with a really good box post for help… chances are they’re using a “Top Tier” card like Yusuke and can’t activate the leader skill.
Different cards excel in different dungeons
One of the biggest problems with not creating a tier list is the fact that not all cards are suited for certain dungeons, or some cards fare better than others. This also heralds back to the previous two points, in which people might be discouraged from attempting a dungeon if they lack a card that we claim would be the “best” for that dungeon. It’s always best to build around a dungeon, and not make a general purpose team, something that a tier list can’t take into account.
Tier lists are better suited for PvP games
The closest thing we have to PvP are Tournaments, but those are still against a set group of enemies and lacks the random variable of what your opponent might have or choose. The reason why tier lists work for games such as Super Smash Brothers or Final Fantasy Brave Exvius is due to the fact each character has different skill sets and have their own counters and characters they counter. This is a non-issue in Puzzle and Dragons, as there are no PvP battles.
So do we really need tier lists?
As we can see, it’s just not really worth making a tier list for PAD cards. A lot of the fun of this game is trying out different leaders and team comps, and switching subs in and out based on your needs for a specific dungeon. Yes, some leaders are easier to play and more powerful than others; that’s just a given with games in general let alone a mobile RPG with in app purchases… but just because you don’t have Yusuke or Fujin doesn’t mean that you can’t beat the end game content, it just means that having these cards will make it a tad easier.
I do understand that some of you might fall into the two groups I mentioned before, being either a new or returning player. Perhaps you’ve been playing for a while and still just need something, anything, to help you out. Luckily Cate has already written a very detailed team building guide I strongly recommend. After reading that, and maybe hanging out and watching what other community members talk about in terms of team builds or card reviewing will quickly help you identify what you need to become successful in Puzzle and Dragons.
Other Authors’ Comments
[speech name=Reni]Back when I was a new player I used to look at tier lists a lot, to see what’s the “best” leader in PAD. As the game progress, I see less need of myself to rely on the list. I just don’t have the resources to build the “meta” teams, nor I have the ability to play them.
There was certainly a time when I lost interest in the game because I kept chasing the “meta”, kept trying to roll for the top leaders, and forget how to have fun with the rest of my box. I forgot that I can build teams that doesn’t require those SS tier leads, and still beat the dungeons. Time flies, nowadays I acknowledge that the lists exist, and accept that I don’t always have to make the SS-tier teams. Some leaders aren’t for me.
With this article, we sincerely hope that more players realize that you cannot rely on a tier list forever. Having that SS tier lead doesn’t make you the coolest person, if you can’t even activate the leader skill.
Play the game your way, it’s more rewarding to beat a dungeon with something you enjoy playing. Don’t have others decide how you have fun in PAD. [/speech]
Image credit: tb_ax and InsanityBringer
At the very end of the piece you say “don’t let others decide how you play.” Unfortunately, the game is designed counter to that ideal in the way the helper lead options work, in that any time i want to play a lead that isn’t meta i have to beg a friend to put it up so i can pair with it or i need to get lucky enough to find one to pair with. This can even happen with relatively new cards like the super king starters.
How do i not let others decide how i play if i am at their mercy regarding what leads i can use?
Find friends who play who you chat with often and ask them to put up particular leaders. When Mega Rodin came out on NA I bugged Reni to put hers up for a while so I could play with him :3
But yes, it’s a far too common issue… my friends list is swamped with Yusukes atm
Tip: When you are playing a certain lead say for example, Rushana, more Rushana leads will show up in your helper list page. Just refresh the game after you run out of that lead in your helper list and more will show up.
What are the many reasons outside of different game design philosophy that you believe tier lists work for FFBE and SSB?
The explanation of characters countering each other can still be applied to PAD through different boss or floor mechanics; can you be more clear on how you perceive this to be different in other mobile or fighting games?
In the case of FFBE: Units in FFBE each fill a specific role outside of being a Leader/Sub/Assist, and each unit is better than others when it comes to those roles when taking into account their Skill sets and stats. Like, Black Mages with innate dual cast or better with Tornado and Aeroja are more saught after for Arena teams for the ability to create a large chain with tornado and capping that chain with a huge hit from Aeroja. Now there are different mages who can do this and can fill that role, however there isn’t a “leader” in FFBE with a Leader skill that’ll dictate how useful that Black Mage is outside of the skill set.
In Pad, let’s take Makoto Yuki as an example of a leader (someone I use often cause I’m a persona fanboy), since his Leader Skill Requires me to combo Red/Blue/Light orbs, I’m not going to run a Blue or Red Cotton on my team, even though she’s a VERY good card, she just doesn’t work in that team comp, meaning if we gave her a ranking of S tier, we would also have to say she’s like… C tier when used with these specific leaders due to her active skill breaking Red or Blue orbs and thus making it imposible to reliably activate Makoto Yuki’s Leader skill…
In the Case of SSB: Similarly to the FFBE case, there isn’t any influence from other characters you have available in chosing what fighter you wish to use, the influence that’s there is what your opponent chooses if you have the knowledge of what they’re choosing. What’s more is that the characters move sets don’t change in the competitive setting… whereas in PAD, the mechanics of some monsters you may encounter in different dungeons may vary greatly (and other times they don’t).
In the end… when it REALLY comes down to it, a Tier list for these games are still not needed at all, as more skilled and knowledged players will know what to do and what to pick depending on the situation. Even on the FFBE Tier list page for the GL version, it states: “These lists provide a rough estimate of units’ utility when used by newbies. Veterans should assess the unit based on their needs instead.” (See it here: https://exvius.gamepedia.com/Unit_Rankings)
Stop worrying about other people. Tier lists are not just good, but required for pad. The game is just too dynamic and people need to know how the meta has shifted, this doesn’t just include people who have recently started playing again but everyone else, too. If they don’t know how the meta has shifted, they won’t be prepared for the newest dungeons. Everyone takes advantage of tier lists, whether you look at them or not. People who don’t still benefit indirectly from those who do — as they give out advice and recommendations based on that sort of info.
Sure, tier lists aren’t the end all-be all but just because some fall into that trap doesn’t mean it somehow invalidates the benefits. And the benefits far outweighs the drawbacks. I could write an entire article about how tier lists directly and indirectly help the player base.
I agree with Mark. It’s easy to get frustrated by looking at a tier list and feeling like it invalidates gameplay to some degree. But that’s not true at all. Tier lists are ONLY beneficial to a player base. Saying things like it encourages stale gameplay or anything negative to that extent just reinforces the idea that a change in mindset is the solution, not getting rid of it.If people naturally want to veer off in a certain direction with respect to how to view a tier list, well, that’s on them. As a community, we should be helping the newer player base to understand what a tier list actually is. They’re just a statistic if you want to get technical. Like you wouldn’t not get married just because divorce rate is 50%, If you do, it just means you have to refine your way of thinking. Instead of focusing on the 50% that have divorced, focus on the other half that hos found a way to do marriage successfully. Same thing applies for tier lists. You can see the negatives of it given human nature, but that does not make the tier list bad, it just means people need the proper guidance to understand the implications of a tier list.